everyone is on their moral high ground saying they know whats best for the oppressed etc etc so fucking boring dude

THATS IT DUDE IVE READ ENOUGH. everyone has terrible opinion i hate it here i want out i take it back fuck it all im a monarchist now. every response is infurating lmfao i hate it so much but i cant close the chat this fucking sucks dude

STOP TWEETING, JUST REST CANT REST HOW WTF, I FEEL LIKE IM ON THE CLOCK TO REST AND RECOVER BEFORE I HAVE TO BE AT A PLACE FUCK THAT WANT DIE WANT BREAK LET ME OUT fuck school.

could be mutually egaged with. but with the org being set up like this it feels much more like "this is the *socialist* org and thats the focus" which like isnt *necessarily* the worst thing? idk maybe if there were more specific orgs for specific things it wouldnt be so bad

it def needs to be intersectional, but like the matter of emphasis yknow idk. this shit is boring me a lot now fuck

clearly matthew was trying but OH MY GOD IM SO DONE THINKING ABOUT THIS GAH IM BORED DUDE

this exercise was ok for the little meme interaction but its too fucking straining when theyre making assumptions about organizations and taking things as given that i just dont believe in. it fucking hurts to evaluate actions while constantly trying to imagine a different frame

racism bad, authority bad

ok so how ive changed my mind: for starters, regardless of substance, the rhetoric has been really bad. also, there is clearly demonstrated the issues with having "leadership" and "members". the hierarchy really makes things screwey and fucked

also i havent mentioned it until now but even if i disagree with them on some of it, raec12 took tons of effort to stand up like this for something you believe in and so i def respect that. i would (and have) just kinda sat back lol

ok finally substance-wise: while i do think it might be a big ask, bringing in black speakers would obv be a very good thing. it is def challenging, but i mean if youre gonna be a "leader" then yknow.

and there def is very rampant econ reduc focus, but then again i don't know exactly what to expect from an org like this. like bc if it was much more voluntary and nonhierarchical i could easily and def see it being more of a community type vibe and everyones issues

ok hm i think i have changed my perspective, at least a bit

i will maintain that raec12 didnt do a great job of explaining grievances, but i should try to be more charitable, careful, and slow when coming across opinions i disagree w, esp when im white

:(

i dont really know how to square the "needs to be a convo" with earlier comments like im not sure how thats supposed to be done if youre uncomfy with the reading group + discussion, maybe they meant that there needs to be a convo about how to be more inclusive, but again there

are some giga limitations bc all white obv. but yeah the response was really yikes and tokenize-y, and the damage control wasn't great after either. idk i wanna be done looking at this shit im fucking tired but i feel like its interesting and important on some level

but also i hate it !!! stop!!

Don’t get me wrong their discussions aren’t that great and there’s not much being offered, but if the structure of the reading group gets people to read black voices then I think that’s the main thing

That’s how I treat the reading group anyway now. I don’t go, just read the book and make up my own mind. Only time I would reconsider is when it’s very like Marxist bc Andrew and Matthew know a fair bit of history stuff and are p familiar it seems

But other than that no one really knows anything and it’s sleeper as hell and yeah idk yikers

alr nevermind i think its flipped now

i wanna cry and go home now pls

i just want it to stop :( im so sad and my head keeps thinking and i want it to stop :(

Like bro I’m sorry but this is ridiculous. Ofc there are massive massive limitations to having people of every privileged group talking about intersectionality, but wtf. The alternative is just to ignore it? Wha?

watched a few vids of this person who is well educated on political theory and parts of it critiqued others stuff. was informative and helpful, but also the guy operated very like angry vindictive toxic masc and it made really sad and tired lol

so now im like :( not in good vibes. do not want future, scary, aggressive,

now to be charitable if everyone had matthew and andrew's pov it would be fine? but the problem is that homogeneity is not realistic nor desirable

makes you either irrelevant electorally and only ppl that already agree, and politicians have just another axis of interests to think about. idk it doesnt seem super promising but def a lot more defendable than "fuck it dud it would look bad dont do anything"

poggers dude your quantity big at all costs im sure that will have no impact on the substance of your org lmao

idk at the end of the day i dont really care about this too much, but i do think it is a good case study for seeing whether anarchists critiques hold up and i think they do lol

if not aesthetics then optics? lol. again i feel like this is just invoking the problem with electoralism, yes descriptively normie black voters will follow black politicians and have a bad taste in their mouth towards DSA, but in considering this net benefit meme youre

limiting and moderating your program. when this happens consistently you just become edgy libs - this is also frustrating bc im pretty sure this person said theyre new to leftism stuff which is fine! but idk like your perspective is important, esp in a super white group

but youre admittedly talking about things you don't have a ton of theorhetical/historical background, and are coming from being a progressive liberal, you gotta be aware that that will influence your analysis. bc this is exactly what prog libs would say, and why they get trapped

yeah this is the right critique tho, he fucked up there

yea andrew and matthew (i think?) have the right take here i think

the last block i think is really funny lol - big aversion to it

lol wtf is this interaction - i feel like andrew gives decent enough of a take from within the framework. the reply is like "ok but if we sell out our values we can appeal to more people" yeah????

dude am i just too white wtf. like maybe im just coping, but your statements can be descriptively true but super shit prescriptively.

yea i think this again is consistent with what i would think within their framework. a lil too economically reductionist, esp with the "we need to be less white by reaching out to the working class" liiikeee yeaahhhh but youre ignoring a pretty big meme there duder.

i think drawing the line is the strong point tho, and the reasoning is just a bit meh in the middle

also circling back to the point about bowman being black and alienating poc, i feel like at least in some minor way its pretty fucked to invoke this social justicey language at the expense of maintaining a stance on the issue

idk this is a little weird bc i struggle with a lot of the assumptions theyre operating with, but its interesting nonetheless

? he does "a lot" but doesn't vote no on that thing? lol i understand there are utilitarian ramifactions and blah blah but thats the issue lmao

this is an interesting point - i think this criticism wouldn't apply if they weren't calling for an action to happen about the endorsement? idk its kind of weird. like i dont know how to conceptualize "representatives" in a way that makes sense

like is bowman really apart of that chapter's community? nah not really even if he was at one point, now they have a completely different set of interests. and like if they are a representative for DSA, why should those being "represented" not have a say, regardless of location

people are talking about it in the ydsa discord, and i wanna react bc i think this is really interesting

i feel like this is exactly the type of utilitarian calculus that leads people to being moderates in an electoral context principles thrown to the wayside for the elusive and corruptive influence of net positive marginal benefit

i understand their point and think it has plenty of validity, but like this is essentially an optical argument. and the issue is about Palestinians - do their status as poc not count?? lol. like i feel like this is an argument for communicating it in a way that specifically

addresses the fact that Bowman is black, and that they are committed to to endorsing black voices that consistently fight on the side of oppressed people or whatever rhetoric you wanna put on it